tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post2621091637081901046..comments2023-11-28T09:02:03.742+01:00Comments on The Seneca Effect: Why do we Always Choose the Decisional Systems that do the Most Damage? A Plea for the way of the HolobiontUgo Bardihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18231859786466899924noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-69158035751679874692022-09-30T06:02:40.516+02:002022-09-30T06:02:40.516+02:00Are holobionts eternal, or do they also perish aft...Are holobionts eternal, or do they also perish after a while?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-19321895831843502782022-09-20T01:18:03.051+02:002022-09-20T01:18:03.051+02:00Free markets are a great example of this sort of o...Free markets are a great example of this sort of organisation in practice. They are resilient to disturbances, great at responding to stimuli... not so good at planning or coordination. <br />It looks like the efficient / resilient thing again. Can't be both at the same time.Graeme Bushellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09539468190932279976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-72761623812432052042022-09-19T11:06:39.059+02:002022-09-19T11:06:39.059+02:00"The End of Certainty" - as fossil fuel...<b> "The End of Certainty" - as fossil fuel reserves deplete - by the hour....</b><br /><br />Humans have destroyed all their fossil fuel reserves - just chasing that elusive <b><i>Certainty</i></b>...<br /><br />When Science failed in the quest - Quantum Mechanics has proposed holding the stick from the middle - "<b>Let's calculate for the - Uncertainty</b>"...<br /><br />That has corrupted Science all the last 100 years, failing to acknowledge that the <b><i>Calculation</i></b> requires infinite Energy - and that's the only Certainty guaranteed...<br /><br /><b>Without fossil fuels, humans would have given up capitalising on Uncertainty-Calculated - tried stupidly by the outgoing 20th Century Science...</b><br /><br />Instead, humans would have resorted to calculate for - what is Certain</b> - "Energy, like time, flows from past to future"....<br /><br />Today, the more new oil wells drilled in Iraq, the more the media is <b>Certain</b> - the country is drifting into a civil war...<br /><br />...the Certainty of an <a href="https://the-fifth-law.com/pages/the-peak-oil-musical-chairs%E2%84%A2-calculator?ugo=https://www.senecaeffect.com/2022/09/why-do-we-always-choose-decisional.html" rel="nofollow">Energy Musical Chairs Game</a> - if you like...<br /><br /><a href="https://the-fifth-law.com/pages/press-release?ugo=https://www.senecaeffect.com/2022/09/why-do-we-always-choose-decisional.html" rel="nofollow">"In any system of energy, Control is what consumes energy the most"</a>.<br /><br />The quest of the last 100 year to control Certainty - proved - humans will always prove primitive and end up - killing each other - as the Certainty...<br /><br />Wailing.<br /><br /><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrWsK7Y2r-M" rel="nofollow"> Iraq plans to drill another 130 new oil wells - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrWsK7Y2r-M</a><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-2329367846425568092022-09-19T01:10:16.986+02:002022-09-19T01:10:16.986+02:00Interestingly, pirate ships seem to have been (and...Interestingly, pirate ships seem to have been (and maybe still are) a good example of a more communal decision making structure. There was a captain. But he was elected by the crew. Furthermore, his power was balanced by a quartermaster whose job was to represent the crew. It seems that complete power was only given to the captain during times of battle. At all other times, decision making was democratic and the captain could be removed at any time. <br /><br />If the El Faro had been a pirate ship, the crew would have voted on whether to sail into the storm or not. Once they decided to do so, the captain would probably have to take total charge because an emergency (eg. battle, hurricane) requires levels of coordinated action that can only happen with centralised decision making.Simon Shttps://simonsheridan.menoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-89958928922655292862022-09-18T21:38:03.990+02:002022-09-18T21:38:03.990+02:00I like your essay Ugo. Moby Dick was fiction but ...I like your essay Ugo. Moby Dick was fiction but based on a real disaster. In the book: In the Heart of the Sea, N. Philbrick argues that the captain deferred to his first mate, rather than his own decision, and on more than one occasion this turned out to be disastrous.Arttuanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-87311692657314065082022-09-18T14:59:19.280+02:002022-09-18T14:59:19.280+02:00It is the fascination of ethological studies. Herd...It is the fascination of ethological studies. Herds are another example of holobionts. Every member communicates with every other member, but there is no decisional hierarchy. The herd moves as a whole. Konrad Lorenz wrote extensively on this subject. If herds exist, anyway, it must be because they are efficient for their purposes.Ugo Bardihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18231859786466899924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-88601205181403154482022-09-18T14:56:04.352+02:002022-09-18T14:56:04.352+02:00Elinor Ostrom has described the decisional system ...Elinor Ostrom has described the decisional system at work in small communities. It is based, mainly, on mediating an agreement between different viewpoints. Once this agreement is obtained, everyone shares the responsibility for the consequences of the action that will be taken. That ensures moderation. It is not evident that it would reduce uncertainties but, surely, it excludes reckless people from the decision making process. Of course, it is a slow process and in some circumnstances a quick decision is needed. That may be the reason why ships have captains. But, on the El Faro, there was plenty of time to reach an agreement, and if you read the details of the story (there is the link in the post), you see it was not just the second mate to be worried about the situation. But nobody dared to challenge the captain. So, I don't think there is a perfect command structure for all situations. But if you charge a single man at the top to take all the decisions, disaster is guaranteed. And I guess that you understand what I refer to when I say that it is happening right now in a place not so far away.Ugo Bardihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18231859786466899924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-78538127125522145172022-09-18T11:49:21.517+02:002022-09-18T11:49:21.517+02:00This is a deep psychological problem in humans, we...This is a deep psychological problem in humans, we are most often ruled by fear throughout our lives and will first seek to evade responsibility by deferring to others to decide important things for us, even and especially if they are lifechanging and those leaders are strangers.<br /><br />I wonder if this is because we are also just herd animals, like sheep and there is indisputedly some safety in being part of a herd, so following is an unfortunate consequence of the other activity that has an evolutionary advantage for survival?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-9737797351534187222022-09-18T11:11:42.036+02:002022-09-18T11:11:42.036+02:00"If the command system of the El Faro had bee..."If the command system of the El Faro had been organized as a holobiont, the captain couldn't (and wouldn't) have ignored or overruled the suggestion of the second mate."<br /><br />Can you explain more how this would work?<br /><br />In hindsight, we know the second mate was right in her judgement. However, there is always a level of information uncertainty in such situations and a big part of the decision making is based on risk. We can see that the captain and other mates were playing down the risk eg. "we've seen worse than this before". Are you saying the holobiont decision making structure would reduce uncertainty in information or create a better risk assessment?Simon Shttps://simonsheridan.menoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-32840971925037273032022-09-17T23:34:40.368+02:002022-09-17T23:34:40.368+02:00Hello Ugo and all. Very good. I've been hoping...Hello Ugo and all. Very good. I've been hoping to read more about self organizing systems ... as silly as it may sound, but if climate is one such system , so is war ... so is economics, inequality, technology, and so on. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-74007729300577152532022-09-17T22:09:28.400+02:002022-09-17T22:09:28.400+02:00I really agree, also with the sentence "On th...I really agree, also with the sentence "On the other hand, for the time being, this idea looks a little difficult to put into practice", but kneeling down in front of the alpha man is not the only issue, greed is a major problem, but like Buffy Sainte Marie wrote in the song "Universal Soldier":<br /><br />"But without him<br />How would Hitler have condemned them at Dachau?<br />Without him Caesar would have stood alone<br />He's the one who gives his body as a weapon of the war<br />And without him all this killing can't go on"<br /><br />Of course, this is also valid for the economic and financial wars, so the kneeling aspect is quite right and is often rewarded with revenues and/or glory, also posthumous.<br />Regards,<br />EtienneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com