tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post6253783468231660000..comments2023-11-28T09:02:03.742+01:00Comments on The Seneca Effect: The Rise and Fall of Scientism. Do we Need a new Religion?Ugo Bardihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18231859786466899924noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-1797384988070016062022-01-03T09:32:26.488+01:002022-01-03T09:32:26.488+01:00Erik, I think that we are all three buglars. And a...Erik, I think that we are all three buglars. And also that we contain within us a tiny kernel of seed for the future. <br />Because we are not really homo sapiens. "Wise" humans. Not yet. Wise would - at least - need a minimum IQ of 120 and the ability to consider second and third order consequences of our actions.<br />But the average lifespan of a mammal species is about a million years and 99% of all species have gone extinct. So - after the upcoming purge and ruthless selection of the current human genome - perhaps the next human species will truly be homo sapiens. <br />Hopefully, they may then be be able to live in harmony with Gaia in a sustainable post fossil fuel civilization.<br />GavinthornburyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-33980326893971914192022-01-02T22:18:30.474+01:002022-01-02T22:18:30.474+01:00Bueno, en vista de lo que hay, las Grandes Alterna...Bueno, en vista de lo que hay, las Grandes Alternativas, las de mayúsculas, no parece que tengan muchas posibilidades de materializarse. Y quienes las intentaron, insistiendo en la industrialización a toda costa no llegaron muy lejos. Es difícil que las mismas soluciones lleven a escenarios diferentes. Se dice que es más fácil imaginar el fin del mundo que el del capitalismo. ¿Vendrán de la mano? Y tal vez pronto. Patxi U.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11746017008140682904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-45363372860980339182022-01-02T15:19:20.773+01:002022-01-02T15:19:20.773+01:00I have grappled often with our relationship with G...I have grappled often with our relationship with Gaia. I do not espouse a Mother Earthy kind of Gaia. Here are two parables that better communicate this. An update of the prodigal son (us I hope, though we may not return to the fold in time). And an update of the Zen burglar story. I hope we are not the third burglar but the first or second.<br />http://gaianism.org/the-lost-son-returns-home/<br />http://gaianism.org/the-parable-of-the-three-burglars/<br /><br />Ultimately, Gaia will tolerate us if we follow Gaia's rules. We could even provide a great service to Gaia (deepening soils, redirecting asteroids or even growing new living planets). But right now, we do not understand our dependency, our proper relationship with Gaia. And that might indeed lead to our demise, and possibly even Gaia's. But it is not too late to change course (even if there is great pain in that turning).Erik Assadourianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00782313781112172239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-55598468287204757232021-12-31T18:07:02.177+01:002021-12-31T18:07:02.177+01:00I am not at all certain that this statement is val...I am not at all certain that this statement is valid.<br /><br />"Ahora que ya no hay lugar para revoluciones"Degringoladehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11893964959960977677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-32070044349811693462021-12-31T11:52:34.288+01:002021-12-31T11:52:34.288+01:00Si cientifismo y tecnolatría son sinónimos, poco q... Si cientifismo y tecnolatría son sinónimos, poco que objetar. Sin embargo, la ciencia "si muove" ! No hay más que ver el consenso de la academia en asuntos tan graves como el cambio climático y la limitación de recursos. El método científico es antidogmático por definición, creo. Otra cosa es la "superestructura" en la que vive y de la que vive, que le da carácter y dirección. Justo en eso es donde la espiritualidad, incluyendo las religiones, tendrían algo que decir. Ahora que ya no hay lugar para revoluciones, ciencia y espiritualidad podrían contribuir a la conformación de realidades alternativas a las lógicas del mercado y del Estado, modestas por el momento, pero que podrían experimentarse como ventajas evolutivas que facilitasen la problemática supervivencia digna de la especie. Será difícil establecer nuevas instituciones de mediación social, pero no imposible. Familia, educación, comercio, trabajo, cuidados... pueden organizarse de formas diferentes, no mercantilizadas, es más, no habrá otro remedio. Más difícil será disolver su núcleo, las instituciones que monopolizan la violencia. Pero igual que el Estado ha nacido, tendrá que morir. Lo viejo se resiste a morir mientras a lo nuevo le cuesta nacer. Y no hay parto sin dolor. Patxi U.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11746017008140682904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-91943736760914817712021-12-31T09:45:52.114+01:002021-12-31T09:45:52.114+01:00I'm not sure that Gaia is quite who you think ...I'm not sure that Gaia is quite who you think she is. I have seen and heard her occasionally in dreams. She hates that her green skin has been cleared for mass housing and wants most of us dead. She wants human blood and bones to renew her land. She is very racist and very merciless. She has been patient but thinks her time for re-greening her land is almost here.<br />GavinthornburyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-26322352820736105142021-12-30T19:12:51.542+01:002021-12-30T19:12:51.542+01:00So many things to reply to! Simplest first: nature...So many things to reply to! Simplest first: nature (or at least humans) abhors a vacuum. I do not think humans will ever become religion free. They'll always need a set of guiding principles--heuristics to help simplify the complex set of decisions they make everyday; A set of principles that offers a bit of meaning in the meaninglessness; Something bigger to devote themselves to, a shared faith to build community around. So I don't think the majority of people will live religion free (especially as the Earth's condition deteriorates, and life becomes harder, people will seek out some meaning--possibly fundamentalist beliefs that promise safety and security). <br /><br />As for Gaianism, I am flattered it was mentioned as an alternative. Though I'm not sure what the critique is. Science in its corrupted form (celebrating man's brilliance and separation from nature--i.e. scientism) is directly at odds with Gaianism. <br /><br />Instead, Gaianism is about rediscovering a right relationship with Gaia--recognizing that we are a young, impetuous species and must stop growing and consuming and instead humbly degrow our way back into Gaia's fold. Practically that means questioning science that is in service of consumerism, profit, and capitalism. But science in service of life is certainly well-aligned, if not at the heart of Gaianism. Gaia Theory, Permaculture, the environmental sciences reveal quite clearly the limits of Gaia and how we are transcending them. Science is certainly not a dirty word, as long as the agenda that has shaped the science has not been corrupted. <br /><br />And third: Gaianism is a very new path, much younger than the celebration (and co-option) of Gaia, since Lovelock popularized this frame for the living Earth (and Mother Earth before that). I remember the cartoon Captain Planet in the 1990s where Gaia was a living goddess. And there are many other examples (though perhaps not as ridiculously commercial as the one you shared). I'm not for personifying Gaia--that just replicates the failures of an anthropomorphic God--but that's just me. Many love to humanize everything: emotions, death, the planet, God, etc. This is at the heart of storytelling after all. <br /><br />But the biggest point: for me, Gaianism is a way to clarify my relationship with, and dependence on, the living planet we're all part of, and help me subjugate my ego and will to the bigger goal of healing all of creation. Not that I'm succeeding, but it certainly has helped me consume less, reproduce less, travel less, and connect more: with other Gaians, with nature, with a sense of the whole that we are all part of (in a more real way than the New Agey ways of the 1970s). I encourage readers to connect with the concept and the community through some of our events if this sounds of interest: http://gaianism.org/how-do-i-get-involved/upcoming-events/<br /><br />Go with Gaia,<br /><br />Erik<br />Erik Assadourianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00782313781112172239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-19956157929774761052021-12-30T04:42:55.564+01:002021-12-30T04:42:55.564+01:00Good post but a bit too dismissive of the spiritua...Good post but a bit too dismissive of the spiritual truths that Christianity was on to. Basically, the Greeks/Hellenes got it right with Classical Ethos, Logos, and Pathos, but the overemphasis on Logos (techne) required a rebalance of the western mental/spiritual operating system. Enter Augustine. He set out to salvage what was right with the classical world with more of an emphasis on ethos and pathos through the Christ myth. AKA the trinity. Fattigmannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006603162301904664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-85396418818578669562021-12-29T21:26:36.457+01:002021-12-29T21:26:36.457+01:00Scientism largest defect is that it has no spiritu...Scientism largest defect is that it has no spiritual foundation. When its adherents face a crises they must resort to coercion to prevail because persuasion is not a realistic option if they want to succeedforgotten outsiderhttp://mydystopianfiddler.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-40175773240373522642021-12-29T21:23:41.627+01:002021-12-29T21:23:41.627+01:00Scientism biggest defect is that it has no deep sp...Scientism biggest defect is that it has no deep spiritual foundation. When it faces a crises its adherents can only resort to force. Persuasion is not a realistic option if they want to prevailforgotten outsiderhttp://mydystopianfiddler.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-79642105549798503862021-12-29T12:14:25.072+01:002021-12-29T12:14:25.072+01:00I was going to post this in your piece about forms...I was going to post this in your piece about forms of knowledge transmission, where I mentioned oral was missing, but can't find what I want. However, this goes to that, and also the comment about dancing above. Reading Mollison on planning my survival garden and came to this very important point in his Chapter 3 Pattern Understanding: Traditional societies have used patterns to effectively understand and interact with the landscape..they do not differentiate between themselves and their environment but see the elements as relatives. Thus, all traditional knowledge and science was recorded in the form of motifs or patterns as carvings, weaving, stone and earth constructions and tattoos. Every motif was accompanied by songs or stories that told its meaning, and the song was reinforced by sacred dances to ensure "muscle" memory of the stories. The important records were of history (sagas), creation myths, genealogies of ancestors, navigation and cyclic phenomena such as tides, weather, star cycles, and crops or wild harvests. Everybody in trial societies had access to a good part of this knowledge, including the names and uses of important plants. Many intact tribes still maintain this knowledge..." He then makes the point that after writing, patterned knowledge was neglected and the forms of knowledge storage we have now are mostly inaccessible ...and further, "...patterned and rhythmic knowledge is unforgettable; symbolic knowledge is unmemorable." ChristineAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-38046152381564041782021-12-29T09:32:37.672+01:002021-12-29T09:32:37.672+01:00A small point about money, David Graeber in his bo...A small point about money, David Graeber in his book "Debt" suggests that "fiat" money came first, in the form of ledgers and account sheets, before coinage was invented. He suggests there have been cycles of a thousand or two years of fiat and debt alternating, and that the changes we see in the last century are part of a transition from a coinage phase to an account-sheet (debt) phase. He also hints at related social and structural things that go with these cycles which may be relevant to this blog post's thesis.Simonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-21461485814456358332021-12-29T03:10:09.157+01:002021-12-29T03:10:09.157+01:00Thinking about this a little bit more, I think I w...Thinking about this a little bit more, I think I would argue that there was a universal religion that preceded Christianity: earth/sun/fertility worship...all cultures and humans gave offerings of symbolic reverence to the life sources. The indigenous cultures still carry this on. It is perhaps the longest lived "religion."<br />ChristineAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-73135978621810953372021-12-29T03:05:22.339+01:002021-12-29T03:05:22.339+01:00I dunno Ugo...will take a while to think about thi...I dunno Ugo...will take a while to think about this, but meanwhile, two points, I am reading Arendt's, Origins of Totalitarianism right now. The Nazis used scientism exactly as the Fauci, WHO etc, follow the science version. They proceeded him, and everything that is happening now appears to have come directly from the Nazi playbooks. This is in the last frightening section of the book. <br /><br />There is also a book, <br />"The Darkening Age: The Christian Destruction of the Classical World is a 2017 book by Catherine Nixey. In the book, Nixey argues that early Christians deliberately destroyed classical Greek and Roman cultures and caused the Dark Ages.Wikipedia," which paints a brutal, ugly picture of Christianity in terms of destruction of all knowledge, and the propaganda effort that painted Christianity as the "good" religion. Our current phase of scientism seems to be a destroyer of all knowledge in the same mode. <br /><br />I agree with the earlier comment that empathy does not require common language. I live with my dogs and they have empathy for me and me for them.They like it when I dance for them.<br /><br />Thanks for the post. ChristineAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-68837180138107917472021-12-28T20:26:05.350+01:002021-12-28T20:26:05.350+01:00Thermodynamically, there is no such thing called C...<b>Thermodynamically, there is no such thing called Capitalism. <br />It took humans to burn all fossil fuels reserves to choreograph what is called Capitalism - for no more than 300 years.<br />There is little oil left behind now to sustain a fossil fuels-created and run brand new Religion - one thinks...<br /></b><br /><br />Former Iraqi oil industry figures believe the British have forced Iraq in the 1970s to nationalise its own oil industry.<br /><br />Now we understand that the British were after leaving the unfathomably high cost of oil production to oil-rich nations to deal with - while the British deal with pricing what oil is produced - cheaper than bottled water - worldwide.<br /><br />Then, in the mid 1970s, Iraq started to send its own national seismic units to discover, test and produce oil in the country.<br /><br />Wherever they went far in the country thinking no humans have gone there before ever, they have seen old drilling towers and equipment left behind by the British, who have already surveyed, mapped and identified all oil potentials - since the 1920s.<br /><br />Today, Iraq is trying to produce whatever little oil that can possibly be produced - like no tomorrow (the more Iraq discovers, produces and exports of oil, the less its own national oil consumption is registered - the latest is 600k daily in a war-torn nation of 40 million).<br /><br /><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWK5vt_Y3zI" rel="nofollow">The Iraqi guy in this video*</a> thinks he and his team are discovering and drilling new oil finds. <br /><br />He, his team, their government, nation and the world are not aware that all what they will find and produce of oil - has already been put in <b><a href="https://the-fifth-law.com/pages/the-peak-oil-musical-chairs%E2%84%A2-calculator?ugo=https://thesenecaeffect.blogspot.com/2021/12/the-rise-and-fall-of-scientism-do-we.html" rel="nofollow">the grand Plan and Timeline</a></b>, decades and decades ago - likely since Huxley's written his BNW.<br /><br />The last drops of oil today is confusing humans and their social engineer - they think billions of syringes, needles and vials may solve the problem of Energy.<br /><br />This far, they hastily rush to bring Religions in the mix (in the 1990s, sanctioned and sieged, Saddam Husain has let his media machine encouraging people to go back to Religion - and boy, people have lined up for that no different from how people today are lining up for jabs).<br /><br />Can the little oil left today produce now <a href="https://www.bitchute.com/video/vAuXzDPlkwIV" rel="nofollow">a new Religion, too</a>, after it produced the Moon Landing, E=mc^2, QM, Black Holes, Gene Therapies, Nuclear Fusion, AI, 4th IR, Technocracy, Transhumanism, Space Travel, etc?<br /><br />Or, it is again the very same primitive humans wrongly thinking <a href="https://the-fifth-law.com/pages/press-release?ugo=https://thesenecaeffect.blogspot.com/2021/12/the-rise-and-fall-of-scientism-do-we.html" rel="nofollow">what fossil fuels can and cannot do</a>?<br /><br />Wailing.<br /><br />* In the 1970s, Iraq has been using extremely humble WW II era Soviet technology to discover and produce more oil. <br />Notice in the video above the up to date expensive technology used today, in contrast - an indication on the ever rising energy cost of the production of the little remaining oil left behind.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-45381462583616775392021-12-28T19:36:51.803+01:002021-12-28T19:36:51.803+01:00Religion as empathy-technology is a new and beauti...Religion as empathy-technology is a new and beautiful idea. Is it similar to the fervor my friend Davide supports Juventus? (dressing up in black-and-white match shirt every weekend, going to the stadium for mass)<br /><br />I would also guess that the training to become a certified priest is quite similar to the PhD trajectory that you took once upon a time. Reading scripture, performing liturgy and going through a baptism, to give you the honorary name "Dr."<br /><br />Is Scientism the same as Tom Wessels and John Michael Greer call "Religion of Progress"? <br /><br />I think you touch on an important part of the European colonial history as a religious conquest to bring "civilization" i.e. Progress to the world, a.k.a. white man's burden. Of course, organized religion is always intermingled with business interests, and religion often provides a moral justification for the atrocities. <br /><br />Which sacrifices "in the name of Science" comes to your mind? <br /><br />And as all sects, it is indeed group-forming and tempting to be nasty to the outgroup. Call them names like "heathens","tin-foil-hatters", "luddites" etc.<br /><br />My own spiritual path leads rather in the direction of a soil worship. There are innumerable mysteries that Science is not tooled to unveil under our foots, or at least under the trees in the garden. <br />Hypogaianism?<br /><br />Thanks for a great year with many new insights! <br /><br />GoranGöranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02375637941166085188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-35870709781070728052021-12-28T19:23:38.357+01:002021-12-28T19:23:38.357+01:00Of course we should dance, and sing and celebrate!...Of course we should dance, and sing and celebrate! As the late David Fleming writes about in "Lean Logic": Carnival is key to a good life in a low-energy future. Göranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02375637941166085188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-51896805181384202232021-12-28T12:07:21.006+01:002021-12-28T12:07:21.006+01:00And perhaps Eurynome, who created the world in a d...And perhaps Eurynome, who created the world in a dance, is a better choice for a Goddess than Gaia. https://www.paleothea.com/Myths/Eurynome.html<br />Ugo Bardihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18231859786466899924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-7709035018137437992021-12-28T10:22:09.877+01:002021-12-28T10:22:09.877+01:00Actually, you made me think that if we want to sur...Actually, you made me think that if we want to survive, we need to dance way more!! Ugo Bardihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18231859786466899924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-59916647097020814942021-12-28T10:11:24.571+01:002021-12-28T10:11:24.571+01:00Great comment, Eric. Thanks! My experience with da...Great comment, Eric. Thanks! My experience with dancing is limited, but, yes, it has unexpected physical and psychological effects. It may be a form of religion. <br /><br />And, about your final notes, propaganda is a tool to promote scientism, yes. You can call it a currency that pays for people's beliefs. Ugo Bardihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18231859786466899924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-48888013685778085092021-12-28T03:47:11.203+01:002021-12-28T03:47:11.203+01:00Thanks for the post!
Interestingly, I believe the...Thanks for the post!<br /><br />Interestingly, I believe there is evidence for a kind of physiological (or motor-neuronal) 'empathy' amongst the members of our species.<br /><br />For a number of years, my wife and I have been sponsoring a regular public meeting for people who want to dance Tango. <br />Obviously this has been interrupted by all this pandemic business, but that is another story, mostly.<br /><br />What I want to say about empathy is that we humans seem to have the ability, and the desire to join in with our fellows in coordinated muscular movements.<br /><br />When a new person arrives at our Tango practice, it is common for them to be surprised at how happy they feel simply because they are moving around in connection with another person. This is entirely non-verbal – even unconscious. Our bodies have the ability to synchronize with each other, and if we do some of that, nearly all of us find that we like it and want to do more of it.<br /><br />A good way to describe this verbally (a pale comparison to the physical experience) is to tell a new dancer that they are to not think about what their own feet are doing, but by making small movements together with their partner they can begin to feel where the partner's feet are, and then they can begin walking using their partner's feet, not their own. That is exactly how it feels.<br /><br />You may have noticed a bit of religious fervor here. <br />Tango (or the like) is my religion, such as it is. Being non-verbal is one of it's best features.<br /><br />As for Scientism – yes, I believe you are on to something. <br />But the currency of the religion of Scientism is not science, it is propaganda.<br />And the most important skill for knowing anything in the current media environment is not the practice of science, because the relevant evidence is often obscured or faked or misrepresented, and almost none of us have been present for the actual collection of that evidence from experiments. <br />Our only option then, is to decide whose story we will believe.<br />And I think it is safe to say that everyone lies at least some of the time.<br /><br />-Eric F.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-35130810800402418922021-12-28T02:38:28.829+01:002021-12-28T02:38:28.829+01:00Good question for Chuck PezeshkyGood question for Chuck PezeshkyUgo Bardihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18231859786466899924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1585995614037680457.post-88630095579729174002021-12-27T23:21:16.386+01:002021-12-27T23:21:16.386+01:00Is there a prelude to empathy? Unconditional and l...Is there a prelude to empathy? Unconditional and life affirming? By what path do we vision empathy and enchantment to become aware of the divine in the world.rivethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10335141212261414174noreply@blogger.com